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| Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, a meeting on the 30/7/13 - photo JC McIlwaine |
Recently a United Nations entity, the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People (CEIRPP), awarded official UN accreditation to an NGO called the Perdana Global Peace Foundation. The NGO is led by its founder, Mahathir Mohamad, a former Malaysian prime-minister known for his overtly anti-Semitic views. CEIRPP Chairman Abdu Salam Diallo wished to “thank him and congratulate him for everything he has done in his political career and for the Palestinian people”.
In 2003 Mahathir Mohamad became rather infamous for his anti-Semitic views, after he attacked Israel and the Jewish People in an Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) speech, which was criticised internationally. He stated:
…today the Jews rule the world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them… They invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy, so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong, so that they can enjoy equal rights with others.His OIC speech is one of numerous examples through the years. At an al Quds pro-Palestinian rally in 2010 Mohamad effectively justified the Holocaust:
Jews had always been a problem in European countries. They had been confined in ghettos and periodically massacred… Even after their massacre by the Nazis in Germany, they survived to be a source of even greater problems to the world.
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| Dr. Mahathir Mohamad, wearing a keffiyeh scarf in support of the Palestinian cause. |
Media slippage
Unfortunately the media rarely challenge the CEIRPP’s activities. Slanted coverage of the Mohamad story by the Times of Israel gives credence to the CEIRPP’s claim that they seek a lasting two-state solution:
The Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People, whose objective is “two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side within secure and recognized borders,”…The assertion is presented as fact, which is only countered by the quoted opinions of others, without the citation of opposing factual claims. However, it is quite evident that the CEIRPP seeks the nullification of Israel’s Jewish status by proposed demographic methods. To quote an annex of United Nations General Assembly Resolution 35/169:
69. The second phase deals with the return to their homes of the Palestinians displaced between 1948 and 1967. The Committee recommends that:
(a) While the first phase is being implemented, the United Nations in co-operation with the States directly involved, and the Palestine Liberation Organization as the interim representative of the Palestinian entity, should proceed to make the necessary arrangements to enable Palestinians displaced between 1948 and 1967 to exercise their right to return to their homes and property…Thus, if there is any truth to the CEIRPP’s assertions, the only two-state solution they advocate would be two Palestine’s, where one is Israel in name only, its populace subsumed by Muslim-Arab migration. Such a stance has long been advocated by Arab-Palestinian leaders, and many groups hostile to Israel.
The CEIRPP has for many years organised conferences devoted to Israeli occupation “from 1948 onward” — 1948 being the very point of Israel’s creation. Clearly they do not recognise Israel’s right to exist in any meaningful sense.
An instrument of the UN’s belligerence against Israel
The United Nation’s decades-long animosity toward Israel has become the stuff of legend. Indeed, Kofi Annan admitted in 2006:
On one side, supporters of Israel feel that it is harshly judged by standards that are not applied to its enemies, and too often this is true, particularly in some UN bodies.Unfortunately such admissions have done nothing to alter the UN’s prejudicial policy toward Israel, a cruel irony given the fact that the UN’s creation was given some impetus as a consequence of the Holocaust.
There are numerous examples of direct and indirect UN agency involvement in Israel’s demonisation, e.g. in 2012 Palestinian Media Watch discovered that a UN funded Arab-Palestinian community centre was putting on a puppet show in Jerusalem that suggested children shouldn’t smoke cigarettes. Instead they should clutch machine guns to kill Jews.
The UN’s Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People (CEIRPP) is a principle source of anti-Israel NGO funding, although for the most part the organisation has not issued details of its funding network publicly.
An ADL report in 2009 noted that substantial annual funds allocated to the CEIRPP by the UN have enabled it to become “a primary vehicle for Israeli demonization” and represents “the only committee in the UN devoted to a specific people.”
The CEIRPP is a central element of the UN’s policy toward Israel. Its unique status, dedicated to a specific people is redolent of the UNHRC’s permanent anti-Israel agenda at its meetings, treatment that is not afforded to other states. UNRWA is the only UN refugee agency dedicated to a specific people, the Palestinians. In contrast to UNHCR, the general UN refugee agency, UNRWA has been shown to systematically radicalise those in its care, perpetuating their refugee status instead of resolving it through integration and resettlement.
There are eleven primary committees that serve the United Nations General Assembly. The CEIRPP is one of these eleven, oddly placed among other committees performing very generalised roles within the UN or dealing with generalised subject areas, such as outer space and atomic energy. There is a separate category of seven explicitly specific “ad-hoc” committees, of which the UNRWA is one. Again it is the only entity of this group dedicated to a specific people. Finally there are four “special” and three “advisory” committees, where again only one is dedicated to a specific people, the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices Affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People and Other Arabs of the Occupied Territories (SCIIHRP)!
Of the other working groups assisting the UN General Assembly, only one is specific to a distinct group of people, the Working Group on the Finance of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East.
Another UN entity, the Division for Palestinian Rights (DPR), has a quasi-symbiotic role in assisting the CEIRPP with its many international conferences and reports. In 2005 Anne Patterson, Deputy US Representative to the UN, stated:
The U.S. seeks the abolition of the Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian and of the Division of Palestinian Rights because both are inimical to the aim of ensuring that UN monies are directed to our highest priorities and in achieving a just and lasting solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict… The United States strongly opposes the use of scarce UN resources to support the biased and one-sided political activities carried out by the Committee.
Defamation under the dovish guise of peace
The Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People has been a core international component of Israel’s demonisation since 1975. Fittingly, it was created when the United Nations Arab and Islamic blocs managed passage of General Assembly Resolution 3379, an infamous text that declared Zionism to be “a form of racism and racial discrimination.”
UN Resolution 3379 was repealed in 1991 but the CEIRPP succeeded in reintroducing the same meme that self-determination of the Jewish People equals racism, at the equally infamous United Nations 2001 Durban “anti-racism” Conference. Durban I is seen by many as a crucial catalytic event that has greatly advanced Israel’s demonisation.
The CEIRPP would continue to spread this message with a succession of major conferences through the first decade of the New Millennium. One of their conferences in Paris became the international platform for launching the BDS Movement which aims to destroy Israel.
The CEIRPP’s concerns about racism can be viewed with genuine scepticism, not only because the organisation is a driving force at anti-Semitic events. Its commitment to prejudice against Arabs, of which the Palestinians are comprised, can also be questioned because Mahathir Mohamad’s statements about Arab stupidity were of little concern to them.
The Committee’s successes are notable. In 2007, the CEIRPP hosted a conference at the European Parliament in Brussels. The event was called “International Conference of Civil Society in Support of Israeli-Palestinian Peace.” The title is yet another example of Orwellian propaganda since speakers uniformly demonised the Jewish State.
A number of European Parliamentary members aptly described the CEIRPP’s corrosive influence:
Despite the neutrally sounding title of its conference, CEIRPP has a proven record of anti-Israel bias, spreading propaganda that presents only the Palestinian narrative, including the delegitimization of Israel — a UN member state. The CEIRPP casts a shadow on the UN role in the Middle East conflict and is first and foremost harmful to the UN.
Similarly, in 2011 the CEIRPP was an important tool in galvanising support for a unilateral bid for Palestinian statehood at the UN, a move which went against the spirit of a negotiated peace as enshrined in the Oslo Accords.
In 2012 the Simon Wiesenthal Centre sought to bring the CEIRPP’s activities to the attention of Ban Ki-moon, the United Nation’s Secretary General, in the aftermath of a CEIRPP sponsored UNESCO meeting in Paris. The Centre requested an investigation into the Committee’s activities, deeming them to be in violation of the principles of the UN Charter, and a threat to world peace.
Also published at Crethi Plethi.
31 comments:
The former Malaysian PM is in some regards right. Some Jews did invent communism/socialism and they did implement it. Jews were disproportionately involved with Bolshevism. Jews also account for over 50% of funding to the democratic party. The entire US foreign policy revolves around Israel's needs and wants. Despite the Israelis being strategically unimportant. Perhaps it's to try and put a leash on the animal but it does give the image of the US being a puppet.
The I/P conflict is overemphasised in the UN, granted. However, Israel's most likely to cause WW3 so it's understandable why the UN would try to keep things from getting out of hand.
Hello, thank you for your comment. Here is my response.
You are right that Jewish people were involved in the creation of communism but it was only some Jewish people. Marx was Jewish but it is not very well known that his father converted to Christianity, and that Marx himself disliked his heritage, to the extent he wrote a text “On the Jewish Question” that is today considered anti-Semitic. Trotsky was also Jewish but I believe he was against a Jewish state.
In the US people believed Jews were communists, in the USSR people thought they were capitalists.
Contrary to what Mahathir says, Jewish culture didn't have much hand in developing democracy. It was mainly a Greek innovation that was used in some parts of the Classical World. It became popular again in the West mainly after the Renaissance, when Greek ideas were rediscovered to a considerable extent.
Yes you’re right that most Jewish people support the Democrat party. I do not know how much funding they give. I agree it may be a lot but 50% seems excessive because America is such a big country.
The change in focus at the UN did not come out of a concern that Israel would cause WWIII. The Soviet Union has more belligerent than the US at the time, and had the greatest number of nuclear weapons as well as the biggest. You may notice there were several big wars against Israel and then it stopped. After it became clear the Arab world could not destroy Israel militarily with the 1973 Yom Kippur war, they created the OPEC Oil Crisis to punish the Western world for supporting Israel diplomatically. A year later they started using the UN to isolate Israel diplomatically, and it is at this point that the anti-Israel institutions at the UN were created. This was another method to destroy Israel.
Well you see if both their claims were somewhat true then this guy has a point.
Estimates range from 33% to 60% on how much of a percentage it is. Even accepting the lower figure shows you how much influence Jews have on democrat's policies.
The UN created Israel. It is the only UN created state so far. Hence regardless of how much bias you perceive the UN to have Israel is answerable to the it. Now I have heard these arguments about Jews returning to 'their homeland' after 2000 years but I have also heard the Palestinian claim and even the claims of 'British-Israelites' lol. The former and the latter being the most laughable. Im aware the UN passed several resolutions about Israel before 1973 and I am also aware Israel cherry picks the ones that suit them and either ignore or blatantly violate the rest. The Arab world almost did destroy Israel in a conventional military campaign during 1973 but the US had to send military aid immediately because Israel threatened to go Samson. The OPEC oil crisis effectively ended 30 years of European post war growth. But I can see why Arab nations did so.
You wrote “Well you see if both their claims were somewhat true then this guy has a point.” - Mahathir Mohamad’s claims cannot be described as “somewhat true” on both when he is utterly wrong to cite democracy as a Jewish invention as was already explained. If you doubt my account I recommend you consult a history on democracy. Furthermore, he is wrong to suggest socialism was primarily Jewish phenomenon. A modest number of the leading socialists were Jews in Eastern Europe and Russia. These were population areas that had perhaps the largest number of Jews in the world. The fact is that these people were oppressed, brutalised and killed by religious elements in Europe for many centuries. If a non-religious system appealed as a better way to live, what can possibly be so wrong about that?
“Even accepting the lower figure shows you how much influence Jews have on democrat's policies.”
- well actually the Democratic Party has become less pro-Israel than the Republican Party so your claim that they control the Democratic Party does not wash well. Furthermore, the Democrats are an economically centrist party with moderate liberal leanings. They are far from being genuine socialists.
The UN did not create Israel. Resolution 181 was rejected out of hand by the Arab bloc in 1947 and an attempt to get a compromise was rejected with Arab parties after that, even when that deal greatly favoured the Arabs. It took an entirely separate declaration of independence for the Jewish State to come into being, very shortly after the British pulled out of the Mandated territory the following year.
“regardless of how much bias you perceive the UN to have Israel is answerable to the it.” – Israel is a member of the UN but the UN has lost any legitimate moral authority when so deeply prejudicial. If what you say is true then to be consistent you will also have to expect citizens of a select group within a hypothetical nation to submit to the nominally legal rule of the leaders that try to persecute them. The UN has not honoured any of its obligations to the state of Israel vis a vis many articles in its Charter.
Of course the UN passed several resolutions about Israel before 1973. That was not my point. 1973 marked a new phase of diplomatic warfare against Israel, hence the OPEC embargo and the development of anti-Israeli infrastructure within the UN. The non-aligned movement within the UN commanded a majority. After Nehru’s death it was used as a political play thing of the Soviet and Arab world so the General Assembly passed a succession of resolutons against Israel from the 1960’s. However, not of these are in any way binding. Only Security Council resolutions are binding legally.
The US actually helped Israel in 1973 because the Soviets were trying to get one up on the US. The very same behaviour was replicated in other nations during the Cold War. The issue of the US being aware of any nuclear threat is a matter of debate that has not been verified sufficiently to be claimed as a historic fact. It may be true but Israel never threatened a single state with nuclear assault. Accounts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War#Israeli_counter-attack show that the war was beginning to turn in Israel’s favour days before the aid was received by the US. Aid merely brought the war to a close sooner: “Israel began receiving supplies via US Air Force cargo airplanes on October 14,[271] although some equipment had arrived on planes from Israel's national airline El Al before this date. By that time, the IDF had advanced deep into Syria and was mounting a largely successful invasion of the Egyptian mainland from the Sinai, but had taken severe material losses.”
“The OPEC oil crisis effectively ended 30 years of European post war growth. But I can see why Arab nations did so.” – that absurd statement is indicative of bias. It was a disgusting move by hate-filled leaders lashing out at those who had actually refused to assist the US in bringing aid to Israel.
You would put collectivel guilt on Arabs for Hajj Amin Al-Husseini, why can't we reciprocate? The US should list Jews as endangered species if they're so concerned. It is like the grey squirrel here in Ireland. It invaded and is getting rid of the native population.
Less pro-Israel? Still effectively pro-Israel then. Has Obama actually limited aid to Israel? No. He made a few speeches urging Israelis to open their minds slightly. Any questions of Israel's legitimacy raises Anti-Semitic rants. I never actually said anything about the democrats being socialist lol. They are left-leaning neo liberals. It is strange though that you immediately tried to rebuff an accusation I never even made. Do you accept it's a Jewish party then?
Who on earth would compromise sovereignty over their own land regardless of how small it is. Tralee is less than 1% of Ireland overall but if it were invaded and settled in tomorrow would you just hand it over? Tralee has never been a state either but don't tell the Jews that.
You make it sound like a crime to oppose Israel. If the UN created Israel. What is wrong with using the UN to dismantle Israel?
The US were scared Israel would go off its rocker. Israel initially was feared to be a Soviet zone of influence at its inception. They then switched to France and for the last 40 years or so sponged off the US. Clearly it's not ideologically committed to any alliance whatsoever if they could just change Cold War sides like that. They are just out for themselves. Republicans have strayed from their initial conservative values. Ron Paul is the last proper Con left.
Why should they provide the oil which transports military goods to their enemy? Indicative of bias? It is an opinion. Opinions aren't biased when they're supported by facts. But everyone who questions Israel are now biased?
“You would put collectivel guilt on Arabs for Hajj Amin Al-Husseini, why can't we reciprocate?” – I wouldn’t do that unless those Arab people believed in and admired Husseini. Sadly many still do!
“It is like the grey squirrel here in Ireland. It invaded and is getting rid of the native population.” – isn’t the Jew more like the red squirrel since he was there first, and the grey squirrels (Persians, Romans, Byzantines, the Crusaders, and an assortment of Muslim Empires) oppressed him and kicked him out?
Obama has not limited aid to Israel but Israel doesn’t need the aid very much. Most aid goes back to the US economy anyway in buying weapons. Israel really needs diplomatic support and Obama has been much more reluctant with that. I wouldn’t say he is anti-Israel but he is not very pro-Israel either.
You appeared to suggest the Jews supporting Democrats and being socialists was in some way linked. Look again at your post, the way it was written. If that was not your intention then I accept it of course.
A party is not solely defined by who gives money to it. The big majority of minorities in America vote Democrat as you probably know. That is because the Democrats represent their interests more than the Republicans. Hell the Irish don’t vote for anyone Republican ever. Look at it another way, if the Democrat party wasn’t financially viable, there would be much less opposition to the Republicans.
Well wasn’t “Palestine” effectively Southern Syria, which is a bit like Tralee? Palestine was never a state or even truly a distinct cultural region under Christian and Muslim rule. However, Judea and ancient Israel most certainly were, both culturally as well as being distinct kingdoms for long periods.
I agree that it is not a crime to oppose Israel but it should be opposed for just reasons, not reasons of dislike for Jewish people etc. If the UN wants to dismantle Israel they should have the balls to declare war on it, and not use innocent Arab people (including the incitement of children) as human bullets. It is cowardly. It uses the deception of international bodies that should be upholding law, not breaking it.
Yes you are right that Israel was initially feared as a communist nation but it was never aligned with the USSR. If you have a reliable source for that information I would be interested to hear it. The US was Israel’s friend from the start. It is forgotten that the British did the very best they could to stop Israel’s creation, and armed the Arab forces in the 1948 war. The US then intervened to stop it.
Believe it or not but people in the West don’t care that much about Israel generally. They Arabs were not giving oil to the West out of charity. The Arabs had no business stopping because the West didn’t hate a country enough for their satisfaction. They didn’t repeat it so maybe they realised it was stupid.
I don't think many Arabs actually know who he was lol. But why not when Sharon is the 'Lion of Israel'? Double standards there.
Based on what evidence? Jews pop up out of nowhere demanding the Palis to get off their own land and expect things to run smoothly. They believe the first people on the Island of Ireland came in 4000BC and they crossed land bridges from Britain. How would you feel if Britain just invoked the 'We were here first' clause and deported the Irish to Scotland? Another Celtic country.
Keynesian economics there? Where's the profit in that? You go through labour and cost to manufacture weapons, your government taxes your revenue and gives Israel weapons, you receive the money back. So Israel gets 3 billion and the associated weaponry and the US gets what exactly?
The Republicans have gone crazy lol. But you said it. The democrats are the party of the minority (racially). The Republicans are the party of the minority too but financially.
Im sure Tralee had a distinct culture under some tribal leader but yeah if Britain invoked the 'We were here first' clause and invaded Tralee it would be a more distinct culture.
Tralee is Southern Ireland which is a bit like Southern Syria? My point is claims that are thousands of years old have no validation because our ancestors could have been anywhere then. Arabs are Semites though and have inhabited the Arabian peninsula for millenniums. We won't be told by Khazarian Jews where we can and cannot live.
" If the UN wants to dismantle Israel they should have the balls to declare war on it" Very militaristic of you.
Communist countries such as Czechoslovakia gave Zionists all the ammo they needed in 1948. The US was just a useful idiot. They did however get Israel out of the Sinai in 56.
I know people don't care. Some do but most don't. Obviously we care because we're discussing this though." They Arabs were not giving oil to the West out of charity." but the West gave arms to Israel out of charity and that's ok? We produce the oil so we decide who can and can't receive it. Hardly bullying tactics because most Arab nations never directly or intentionally harmed Europe or the US beforehand.
“I don't think many Arabs actually know who he was lol.” – Abbas was lionising him just recently.
“Based on what evidence? Jews pop up out of nowhere demanding the Palis to get off their own land and expect things to run smoothly.” – based on everything that is reliably known. Everyone knows it’s the truth even if today they try to pretend they don’t. An elderly Jewish man who grew up in Dublin during the war told me the kids around would tell him to “go back to Palestine Jew-man”
“They believe the first people on the Island of Ireland came in 4000BC” – actually it was 8,000 BC, and they weren’t British even if they migrated from what we today call Britain.
The US gets a subsidy to its arms base, it happens all the time in many spheres. There is a vast interweaving of their intelligence agencies. In some respects Israel is the US’ left arm. They also get to tell Israel what to do in certain quarters, when it is against their own interests. When Israel was getting closer to China with sales of technology some years ago, the US effectively told them to stop.
The point of Tralee is that it is a part of another country like Islamic Palestine was part of another cultural entity, Syria, and indeed it was referred to as Southern Syria when Arabs sought to avoid Israel’s creation. It isn't a uniquely indigenous region in its own right, just as Tralee-ites do not represent a unique culture. A person is a Tralee-ian by virtue of living there, having their roots there. Similarly Palestine was understood by the British to represent a regional territory rather than a nation so the Jews living in Palestine are just as Palestinian as the Palestinians are, and indeed the Jordanians!
“ Arabs are Semites though and have inhabited the Arabian peninsula for millenniums. We won't be told by Khazarian Jews where we can and cannot live.” – but the Arabian Peninsula isn't near Palestine.
The Khazar theory about Jews coming from Asia rather than the Middle East but it has been rubbished http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703746604574464023091024180.html time and time again by experts and studies in recent years. Recent studies affirm it, see the Newsweek article “The DNA of Abraham’s Children” http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/06/03/the-dna-of-abraham-s-children.html with samples taken from a wide range of Jewish people of many backgrounds.
“Very militaristic of you.” – do you not think it is dishonourable to sneak around telling the world a miasma of lies for decades, and turning Arab-Palestinians into the tools to wage that war, instead of making war if you wish to destroy a nation? Shouldn’t people be worthy to commit acts of destruction? In various warrior codes or philosophies, if one is not able to destroy an opponent, they accept their inferior strength. It is a better option than debasing themselves to destroy their opponent at any cost.
“Communist countries such as Czechoslovakia gave Zionists all the ammo they needed in 1948.” - They sold Israel some weapons and planes when they had absolutely nothing to fight with. That doesn’t mean they colluded with the USSR – there was some sympathy for the Jews after the Holocaust but again its not like they gave them weapons free of charge.
You made a point before: “You make it sound like a crime to oppose Israel.” – well you are turning it into a crime to support Israel. Why wouldn’t nations have the right to sell weapons to Israel?
“the West gave arms to Israel out of charity and that's ok?” – it wasn’t charity, Britain and France sold Israel arms but what precisely is wrong with that? They were also helping the Arabs I seem to recall. Moreover, why punish the Western world. Anyone who sells will sell to the highest bidder. OPEC knowingly used tactics to harm other nations a great deal – that is bullying and it is blackmail.
The British peoples are the real tribes of Israel. Firstly, the Jews claim to be from specifically the tribes of Judah and Levi, and a portion of the tribe of Benjamin. Judah and Benjamin only controlled the South, Now in Deuteronomy 10 we read the Levites aren't even allowed to own any of the land there!
The Jews are more than often enough said to be Khazarians, and I know it's disputed, but "I know thy works, and tribulation, and pouertie, but thou art rich, and I know the blasphemie of them which say they are Judahites and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan." Revelations 2:9. We know today it is the Jews who claim to be Judahites, but the thing is: They do match the numbers of the Synagogue of Satan. Take the star of David, which has 6 triangles, 6 sides of the middle hexagon, and 6 points. For they are the 666.
They don't match up with the prophecies what so ever either, I mean, we know the Israelites went to the "Isles", and here are some verses to prove it: (Jeremiah 31; 9-10)
"I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the ISLES afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock". I HAVE NOT FINISHED COMMENTING. ALEX.
(Isaiah -49;1 6)
"Listen 0 ISLES unto me. Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified... to bring Jacob again unto him... to raise up the tribes of Jacob... a covenant of the people [in Hebrew: "Brit-am"] to establish the earth... to inherit the desolate heritages... these from the north and the west; and these from the land of Sinim".
(Isaiah 24;15)
"The name of the Lord God of Israel in the ISLES of the sea" .
(Isaiah 42;4)
"The ISLES shall wait for his law".
(Isaiah 51;4 5)
"Hearken unto me, MY PEOPLE...O my nation...mine arms shall judge the people, the ISLES shall wait upon me".
(Isaiah 60;9)
"Surely the ISLES shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far" .
Could this be the British Isles? Let's examine further: [Isaiah 49:12]
"BEHOLD, THESE SHALL COME FROM FAR: AND, LO, THESE FROM THE NORTH AND FROM THE WEST; AND THESE FROM THE LAND OF SINIM". I HAVE NOT FINISHED COMMENTING. ALEX
I should point out the British Isles are North West of the Land of Israel. So it's leaving very few options now, just the British Isles, or some of the Med Isles, let's examine further though.
"God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an UNICORN.
Surely there is no enchantment against Jacob, neither is there any divination against Israel: according to this time it shall be said of Jacob and of Israel, What hath God wrought!
Behold, the people shall rise up as a GREAT LION, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain" Numbers 23:22-24
A "Great Lion", and a "Unicorn". Now, you may of all heard of the "Lion of Judah", when Israel became separated the southern Kingdom of Judah was represented by a Lion, and the Northern Kingdom of Israel a Unicorn. I urge you all to take a look at the British coat of arms which you will see is a Lion and a Unicorn, perhaps the re-unification of Israel? After all, it is a union of Ulster, Scotland, England and Wales. I HAVE NOT FINISHED COMMENTING. ALEX
SING UNTO THE LORD A NEW SONG, AND HIS PRAISE FROM THE END OF THE EARTH, YE THAT GO DOWN TO THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS THEREIN; THE ISLES, AND THE INHABITANTS THEREOF [Isaiah 42:10]
Britain is a seafaring nation! [Numbers 24:7] HE SHALL POUR THE WATER OUT OF HIS BUCKETS, AND HIS SEED SHALL BE IN MANY WATERS, AND HIS KING SHALL BE HIGHER THAN AGAG, AND HIS KINGDOM SHALL BE EXALTED.
In other forms of Symbolism: The Ulster red hand is of Biblical origin: The "red hand" is from the story of Zarah, the son of Judah, who he put his out of his mothers womb first and the doctor put the tag on his hand, but he put it back in again, and the other twin was born first. http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/redhand.html
It's actually a famous legend surrounding the symbol.
If we look at Irish mythology we can see in history something called "Tuatha Dé Danann" which, according to some, means "Tribe of Dan". I HAVE NOT FINISHED COMMENTING. ALEX
We see from genetics that the British peoples are almost purely Celtic and Germanic, with some norse. If this is true, it would mean the Celtic descendants around the British Isles, as well as the Germanics and others, are Israelites too from various tribes. The word "Brit-am", is two words, but "am" meaning people in Hebrew, and "Brit" meaning "covenant" In Hebrew, combines sounds similar to "Britain". Now, this would link up with verses such as [Isaiah 42:6]
" I THE LORD HAVE CALLED THEE IN RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND WILL HOLD THINE HAND, AND WILL KEEP THEE, AND GIVE THEE FOR A COVENANT OF THE PEOPLE [Hebrew: "Brit-Am"], FOR A LIGHT OF THE GENTILES;" Because we need to know who the covenant people are. This again links with the British flag, nick named the "Union Jack", could mean the "Union of Jacob", Jack is derived from Jacob.
The British peoples also match up with the promises given to them by God: In observing the Hebrew, the reference in Genesis 35:11 and in Jacob's retelling in 48:4 are very similar. The word for "company" in 35:11 and "multitude" in 48:11 are both the same—Strong's #6951: "qahal" which primarily means an assembly or congregation and, in fact, is almost invariably translated "assembly" or "congregation" (except in Ezekiel where it is "company" in an army or military sense).
However, the "multitude" in Genesis 48:19, when specifically speaking of Ephraim, uses a different Hebrew word—Strong's #4393: "melo" which means "fullness, what fills" (Brown-Driver-Briggs).
In looking closely at the context of the first reference we find Jacob on his way to Luz (Bethel). This was well after Jacob left Laban with his wives and eleven sons (Gen 31). They had already met Esau (Gen 32-33) and settled in the Shechem area (Gen 34). After the incident of the sons killing all the Shechemites, Jacob is told by God to go to Bethel (Luz) (Gen 35:1). It is on this trip where he is told that "a nation and a company of nations shall proceed from you." A little while after this, Benjamin was born and Rachel died (Gen 35:17-19). A MULTITUDE OF NATIONS: BRITISH EMPIRE.
http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/theunionjack.html
So far I have only posted religious evidence from the Bible, however I have given enough information for you to take up links, and search around for secular evidences, some of which are given by a great archaeologist "E. Raymond Capt".
God bless. Alex. I hope you get all my comments I had to break them up.
To Summarize: The REAL Hebrew Israelites are British-Celtic-Germanic-nordic. EVEN IF the Jews where Judahites it would only entitle them to the Southern half of the country, and if any are levites they are to own NO land in the Holy Lands. This is according to the Torah, the first 5 books of the Holy Bible, which the Jews claim they wrote, but this claim cannot be validated and scripture, prophecy and archaeology leads us to believe it was the British. I mean, the Pictish peoples from Scotland were considered the indigenous Scottish, they are from the "IRON AGE", which is 1,200 to 500 BC, obviously based on some sort of fallible age dating method, but the fall of Assyria was 721 to 742 BC that is when the majority bulk of the Israelites left, and began their journey to the "Isles of the Sea". Alex
I will respond shortly but please identify yourselves in future as I have no idea to whom I am referring if everyone posts with an "anonymous" nic.
Abbas represents all Arabs now? Im sure quite a few Israelis lionise Sharon's early days. You failed to address that point.
Great! Hear say. Well Palestinians didn't tell that old man where to go nor did they dish him abuse but they did get one thing right, Palestine.
I got the estimated arrival date wrong but my point stands.
The US gets nothing in reality but some phantom power. It is like getting an incredibly wild and dangerous dog to do tricks. Phantom power, nothing more, nothing less. Israel being such a good and loyal friend should have known better not to have pursued military deals with China.
Ok, we're in agreement? Jordan, The West Bank, Gaza and Israel become one single state where everyone has the right to vote.
Quite frankly reports are inclusive about their lineage. Even if Jews did originate from there it wouldn't mean they have a right to just displace those living there now.
Sorry but they're not lies, they're facts and people are overwhelmingly accepting them. Not the average Tom, Dick and Harry but the average politician which is what really counts anyway.
Jews pulled weapons out of nowhere previously then? Someone was always being their proxy.
Im not turning anything into a crime, the side you support do that. The UK even knocked press tv off air so Shias couldn't rally around Iran.
It is with the US. France and Britain were transits to Israel too.
Sieg Heil Mein Fuehrer
Ice-Cold-In-Alex: “The Jews are more than often enough said to be Khazarians, and I know it's disputed, but…” – the Khazars theory is advocated by tin-foilers. It is a crazy theory invented in 1976 that is only accepted at the periphery of the pro-Palestinian cause because it suits then to deny the Jews are indigenous. You seem to dispute it too but for differing reasons. I have had a quick look at your website, and whilst I try to be open to new ideas, I have to say it’s a tad “unusual”, and the notion of disassociating the Jews with Israel needs to be validated. Then again I am one of those Jonathan-Locke types– a sceptic of everything, a believer of nothing except what can be established as evidential.
Alex wrote: “the REAL Hebrew Israelites are British-Celtic-Germanic-nordic. EVEN IF the Jews where Judahites it would only entitle them to the Southern half of the country, and if any are levites they are to own NO land in the Holy Lands...”
You do realise Eretz Israel was a vast territory extending to Iraq in the East, and to Egypt http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1695_Eretz_Israel_map_in_Amsterdam_Haggada_by_Abraham_Bar-Jacob.jpg in the West? There would be plenty of space for everyone, even for those Levites if “God” changes his mind. Maybe you should advocate a new type of two-state solution.
“In that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: "Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates; the Kenite, and the Kenizzite, and the Kadmonite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Rephaim, and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Girgashite, and the Jebusite."” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel
Abraham was the father of Ishmael who Arabs descend from. Yup and we have most of that.
“Im sure quite a few Israelis lionise Sharon's early days. You failed to address that point.” – Sharon was reviled for a long time. He was driven out of his position at the time of the killings in Lebanon. He was elected in the Second Intifada when Israeli’s felt they needed a strong leader to deal with violence.
“Great! Hear say. Well Palestinians didn't tell that old man where to go nor did they dish him abuse but they did get one thing right, Palestine.” – not I’m just trying to give an example of how the place of the Jews in the world is understood to a large extent. Palestine/Judea was seen as their homeland through the ages. That is not to say it cannot be the home of other people too of course.
The US doesn’t own Israel but it is surely a mark of the US’ influence that it stopped a major source of money and future investment. My point is that it isn’t all a one-way street. You do know that the US was supplying weaponry to Arab nations too before the Cold War completely polarised the sides?
I never said Jews pulled weapons out of nowhere but they were facing professional Arab armies. This is one of the reasons why some Christians believe Israel’s recreation was in some way miraculous.
Are you sure the UK banned PressTV because I thought I could still get it on my BBC satellite dish?
“Quite frankly reports are inclusive about their lineage. Even if Jews did originate from there it wouldn't mean they have a right to just displace those living there now.” – indeed you are correct. If you look at the British Mandate it granted protections to the people already living there. The problems of the people living together arose from that point unfortunately. That is why some level of partition has become the only true and lasting solution.
At the end of the day we can squabble over facts but here is why I believe the Jews have a particularly strong right to return to their homeland. It is because as a people they were smashed by Europeans. I may post up a some pages of a book by Malcolm Hay (a Scottish Catholic man) if I have time because it is not really available anymore. It is the most horrific book I read, it makes a point that the Holocaust was not a freak incident. It was the natural climax of a thousand years of the most savage persecution. The Roman Empire counted 6 or 7 million Jews in the 43AD census. There are now 13 million living. There should be a quarter of a billion according to normal population growths, which include factors of war and pestilence. The story of the Jews is one of death more than life, which is why I support Israel.
Nicknames like 'The King of Israel' and the 'Lion of Israel' don't indicate revulsion to me. They sound rather affectionately triumphant. Yup, the 1982 invasion turned him into an international and domestic monster but Sharon's military and political career extends long before then and well after it. "He was elected in the Second Intifada when Israeli’s felt they needed a strong leader to deal with violence" aka A brutal leader for a brutal people?
There are many areas in the world where ethnic minorities aren't at home. The Jews are not the largest and not the only minority to face persecution. Yet they've been treated specially. Home is a place where one is meant to be a place that is safe and secure but if the last 65 years have taught us anything it is this, the Ashkenazi Jews are not welcome here! Your heart can bleed for them all it likes but the truth is you can't just take a pen to a map and allocate areas to certain races and cultures. Entire sovereign nations and regions would be carved up like meat in a butcher's.
No Im not saying it does but clearly Israel isn't at all committed to US interests if it flirts with rivals such as China. Beggars can't be choosers either and clearly Israel isn't grateful for anything. 3 billion dollars and unconditional diplomatic support obviously counts for nothing, The US still does, the Saudi, Bahraini, Omani, Kuwaiti, Qatari and Emirati regimes are all propped up by US arms. At least they actually buy them though.
Wasn't really a miracle. The Jews actually had more troops and international funding from Zionists. The Arabs made a lapsed effort to regain Palestine. The divided opposition card again boded well for Jews as Arab ambitions were starkly divided. Perhaps Christians should read further into their Bibles because the Arabs seem to be the ones who fulfilled the 'from the Euphrates' prophecy and we're descendants from "Abraham's seed" through Ishmael.
Yup, Press TV was channel 515 or 516 and now it's completely off air.
The British self mandated territory of Palestine didn't legitimately belong to neither the Jews nor Britain. Yet Britain demographically altered its population. The liberal right seem to be somewhat deluded and contradictory. Should all these Western nations be partitioned after the immigrant population hits a certain figure or are you one of those NIMBY types?
There is nothing to say it is their homeland. There homeland is Spain, the Rhine and Eastern Europe. I doubt there's a drop of Semitic blood in half of them imposters. They are mostly just Jewish Germans. Let them have a state in Europe them. Russia(Eurasia) has its own Jewish oblast. They could settle there and it's 30,000 Km! The Jews couldn't even decide who to pose as. They flirted with the idea of Uganda and Madagascar but settled with Palestine. Plenty of people are and have been persecuted. Frak, entire races have became extinct because of it. The Arabs may seem like ok targets because we're by technicality the most numerous race after the Han Chinese and have from Morocco to Iraq but each Arab country is uniquely cemented with its own history. You compare us Lebanese to Saudis and you'll see no resemblance because Lebs are mostly white. Lebanese history is distinctly different too. Likewise with Egypt, Yemen, Palestine, Syria, Morocco etc. My point is you can't make one people suffer to accommodate another race claiming mass asylum. I wouldn't feel guilt over what happened to Jews if I were you. Tragedy hits everyone so why make them a special case?
Hello Hala, I regret the time it has taken to reply to your comments. Spare time to devote to the blog among other interests has been quite limited. You ask questions that are not easy to answer properly without full explanation so my answer is long. Anyway, here are answers though you won’t like them.
You wrote “Nicknames like 'The King of Israel' and the 'Lion of Israel' don't indicate revulsion to me. They sound rather affectionately triumphant… aka A brutal leader for a brutal people?” Ariel Sharon earned the name “The King of Israel” because of his feats in the Six Day war and particularly defence in the Yom Kippur War when he managed to encircle the Egyptian Army. That was a turning point in a war that the Israeli public thought they would loose leading to the destruction of their entire nation so it is entirely understandable they would honour him in that way. If they had given him that title after the massacre by the Christian militias in Lebanon then I would of course think like you do. Israel didn’t start the Second Intifada http://www.mesi.org.uk/ViewPoint.aspx?ArticleId=19 even if some still use Sharon’s visit to the Haram (AKA Temple Mount) as an excuse. It happened because Arafat walked away from the Camp David peace talks because he couldn’t tolerate shared sovereignty of the Haram.
Hala wrote: “The Jews are not the largest and not the only minority to face persecution. Yet they've been treated specially. Home is a place where one is meant to be a place that is safe and secure but if the last 65 years have taught us anything it is this, the Ashkenazi Jews are not welcome here!”
Indeed you are correct that the Jews are far from the only minority to face persecution but they haven’t been treated specially except for the post-WWII years, just after the Holocaust, and yet that’s debatable since national homes for other people were created too. There were massive partitions and transfers.
Truth is Hala that it isn’t just the Ashkenazi but all Jews including the Mizrahi Jews who were almost completely cleansed from the Middle East over a 20 year period with the establishment of Israel. Most of these Jews went to Israel and are now the majority. They didn’t forget how the Arabs treated them and are now the ones who manly vote for people like Ariel Sharon. Sharon’s own ancestors were treated harshly, and I recall him saying he never turns his back on an Arab, even the man who worked on his farm for 20 years. If these people are a brutal people, as you suggest, it is important to ask why.
Hala wrote: “you can't just take a pen to a map and allocate areas to certain races and cultures. Entire sovereign nations and regions would be carved up” – that’s exactly what happened and it mostly works.
Hala: “clearly Israel isn't at all committed to US interests if it flirts with rivals such as China. Beggars can't be choosers either and clearly Israel isn't grateful for anything. 3 billion dollars and unconditional diplomatic support obviously counts for nothing”
China also does business with the US, and Israel spends 15 billion a year on weaponry, mostly from the US so the US still benefits. Look at the house prices in Dublin! Three billion isn’t such big deal. Some other Arab states buy weapons from the US entirely but are they even a fraction as loyal as Israel? Israel could have got trillions from technical sharing with China but still abided by the US demand.
Hala: “Wasn't really a miracle. The Jews actually had more troops and international funding from Zionists. The Arabs made a lapsed effort to regain Palestine.”
Virtually every able bodied Jewish male was in the IDF in 1948 but it was an army of amateurs facing five professional armies from the Arab nations. They had no planes except two or so they put together from crashes and parts left behind by the British, until they got 50 Spitfires later on from a European socialist state. No one thought they would win but they stood to loose everything so they fought harder.
Hala: “There is nothing to say it is their homeland... I doubt there's a drop of Semitic blood in half of them imposters. They are mostly just Jewish Germans. The Jews couldn't even decide who to pose as.”
That is untrue. The weight of evidence as I have already mentioned shows without any question that the Jews are the indigenous people of Israel. I refer to the fact that these people are one of the most famous populations through history, then some guy in 1976 latches onto an account that some Khazars converted to Judaism! What you say is like saying the Arabs are not true Arabs and never came from Arabia anyway. The stuff about Khazars is just nonsense, worse than denying the Holocaust IMHO since it tries to delegitimise a people’s entire identity, history and all that they were persecuted about.
The Khazar story runs contrary to established scientific studies which have established that Arabs and Jews are quite close in terms of their genetic heritage. They look much the same. It is not all that easy to tell them apart in Israel except for their clothes. By contrast I can assure you it is very easy to tell a Jew from an ethnic German as it is to tell a German-Turk from a German. Please read the links posted.
Do you not see that it is a profoundly offensive thing to say the Jews are not real Jews, that they are a made up people? The Jews are your brothers and sisters. When I say the Palestinians are more properly called Southern Syrians, it is because they saw themselves that way until the PLO and other Arab influences politicised their identity, and it does not deny they have an intimate and old link with the Middle East and the local area. Syria is more than a very important part of the Middle East, it was the bedrock of early Christianity and Islam, a place where the earliest human civilisation began to evolve.
“Let them have a state in Europe them. Russia(Eurasia) has its own Jewish oblast. They could settle there and it's 30,000 Km!”
The Jewish Oblast was never a serious proposition for Jewish people, and its location was picked more in the interests of developing a human shield against invasion than to facilitate the creation of a Jewish state. Moreover it was never truly autonomous. The USSR had an essentially institutionalised anti-Semitism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union#Under_Stalin where oppression would increase intermittently. One of the big human rights issues before the fall of the USSR was the Jewish refusenicks who were oppressed. Little changed after the fall of the USSR because Jews kept fleeing – with many going to Israel or the US. The Oblast was designed to be an anti-Zionist alternative to Palestine but it didn’t even appeal to any true sense of Jewishness, and it failed because it was not rooted in the past of the Jewish people unlike Palestine. That is why even socialist Jews from Russia who had little religious belief preferred Palestine to the EAO.
Hala: “They flirted with the idea of Uganda and Madagascar but settled with Palestine.”
The Jews never “settled” with Palestine – it was always at the core of Jewish values to return. A few proposals were brought before the Zionist Congress at the turn of the century, and Madagascar was entertained for a briefest of times but politely declined. You say Jews can’t even decide their identity! The Jewish prayer “Next Year in Jerusalem” is said repeatedly at religious holidays, the city of Jerusalem is mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_in_Judaism#In_prayer repeatedly in daily prayer and like Mecca for Muslims, Jews often face Jerusalem for prayer. This has been a central aspect of their faith since the loss of Jerusalem almost two thousand years ago. The resettlement of Palestine began in the 1400’s when Jewish communities began to return. Note that this was a time when there was no notion of re-establishing a Jewish state. It increased from the 1600s when the Ottoman empire relaxed its rules on Jewish habitation generally.
This is fantastic!
It is ok. Thanks for replying. I accept these 'answers' as your opinions however.
Well I do reject what you've stated with the Arabs trying to destroy Israel in the Ramadam war of 1973. Syria and Egypt just wanted their land back. Ariel Sharon is a monster regardless of any glory you attempt to place on him. Lebanon 1982 was hardly the most humanitarian of invasions. There shouldn't have been such a violent reaction to Sharon's visit since it was given the ok beforehand but, Israel's reaction to stone throwing Palestinian youth was nothing short of brutal.
The Biafrans, Kurds, Hazaras, etc have still not got a sovereign state. No state has even protected their culture. These people have continuously lived in the same place for millenniums and still haven't a sovereign nation. Now tell me why these people must endure the hardships thrown at them while some European Jews come to Palestine rather spontaneously and claim they've a right to settle there? I believe people have a right to self determination but only if they have lived there continuously and have a distinct culture to that of their neighbour's. Partitions don't work! Partitions have never worked. Look at India and Pakistan, 65 years they have nuclear weapons pointed at each other. The partition of Palestine clearly hasn't worked either. However, the conflict is heavily one sided compared to that of India and Pakistan.
For such a victimised people the state of Israel has blatantly disregarded the Armenian genocide and proudly supplies its arch-enemy, Azerbaijan. Im sure the Azeris wouldn't think twice about committing the same massacres as their Turkish brethren did 90 years ago and thanks to Israel they are becoming increasingly capable of doing so. Im guessing Jews deserve more special attention than the Armenians though. After all, their pockets are deeper.
What happened to Arab Jews was extremely regrettable but the European Jews knew a reaction was coming. In fact they accelerated the process. Bombed a few Jewish shops and businesses in Egypt and Iraq to heighten the sense of fear. While Jews in Algeria actively collaborated with French authorities who butchered 1,000,000 Algerians. "If these people are a brutal people, as you suggest, it is important to ask why." Speaking out of both sides of your mouth there? I looked at some of your previous articles and you were quick to criticise those who questioned US foreign policy after 9/11.
The Arabs had the most lackluster, unprofessional and undisciplined armies the world has ever seen. The Syrians were lucky if they could order their generals to do anything without a coup. The Jordanians were the only professional Arab army and they succeeded in their goal.
The US doesn't do military business with China.
Compare a Saudi to an Ashkenazi Jew. You would notice one hell of a difference. Arabs fit the Semitic description. I guess Obama can claim Ireland as his ancestral homeland too lol. Look how Irish he looks and think that's only a few generations of a difference, your talking about a claim after 2,000 years here. The next year in Jerusalem prayer developed during the Middle ages. Besides the Zionists were mainly secular at their inception.
Hala, Nasser made many genocidal statements in the 1967 war, and they had not lost any territory before it. The 1973 war was just another chapter but this time Sadat made a surprise attack so nothing of his intent was known before it. I don’t seek glorify Sharon. I just said he was a good fighter - you may agree in view of his success. I attempted to explain why Israelis held him in esteem
“Partitions don't work… Look at India and Pakistan”
Partition has created a large number of states quite successfully. Germany, Serbia, Kosovo etc.. India and Pakistan have tension but the British commission overseeing partition stupidly gave nations independence before lines of partition were established, leading millions to flee. It was preferable to open civil war. The Middle East/Africa was partitioned into states. It doesn’t always work but as a last resort can be essential.
Israel is an isolated nation in the Middle East. If it trades with Azerbaijan then I don’t see the problem just because it isn’t pals with Armenia, unless it is practising extreme discrimination against minorities.
“What happened to Arab Jews was extremely regrettable but the European Jews knew a reaction was coming. In fact they accelerated the process. Bombed a few Jewish shops and businesses in Egypt and Iraq to heighten the sense of fear” - If you are talking about the 1950’s Lavon Affair, it was tied to the Suez crisis. Israel wanted the British to stay in Egypt so their shipping wouldn’t be harassed crossing the canal. Israel recruiting a few Jewish operatives in Egypt does not legitimise the ethnic cleansing of arguably the oldest surviving culture in Egypt. Sectarianism against Jews increased in the 20’s, got worse in the 30’s and intensified in the 40’s. Then the Arabs complain when they move to Israel?
In Iraq there were shocking discrimination years before Israel existed, and vast numbers were already fleeing before the bomb attack of the early 50’s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iraq#Modern_Iraq so it just doesn’t add up.
“Jews in Algeria actively collaborated with French authorities who butchered 1,000,000 Algerians.” – sounds like you are referring to the Algerian Civil war, do you have a reputable source for that claim because it sounds like the usual conspiracy theories spread about Jews, used to justify their expulsion or killing? What of the entire Jewish community of Algeria being ethnically cleansed by the FLN?
“"you were quick to criticise those who questioned US foreign policy after 9/11.” – that is untrue, please cite where I criticise people questioning US foreign policy. I was against US intervention before it became fashionable with Iraq.
“Compare a Saudi to an Ashkenazi Jew. You would notice one hell of a difference. Arabs fit the Semitic description.” – Did you not say Lebanese also look different to Saudi Arabians so why compare Jews? Arabs are Semites just as Jews are, culturally and racially.
You say “Biafrans, Kurds, Hazaras, etc have still not got a sovereign state… Now tell me why these people must endure the hardships thrown at them while some European Jews come to Palestine rather spontaneously and claim they've a right to settle there?”
Its not an either/or situation. I think Kurds are right to seek a state. The Jews did not settle in Palestine spontaneously. Jews started to return to a modest extent in the 1400’s I think
“I believe people have a right to self determination but only if they have lived there continuously and have a distinct culture to that of their neighbour's. your talking about a claim after 2,000 years here”
No not 2,000 years - a common claim but incorrect. There was constant Jewish habituation in Israel but it became a small population approaching the first millennium AD due to massacres, expulsions etc. Indigenous people are those who have a distinct culture associated with a given area of land. They still have that claim even if displaced.
Sorry, I intended to respond sooner but I completely forgot about it until recently.
Sadat made his intentions clear to Jarring Gunnar and the Egyptian offensive stalled when they got past the canal as his troops dug in.
Partition has never worked, not once. Kosovo will never be fully recognised and Serbia looms overhead. Germany was not partitioned. A large portion of her territory was taken and its people were expelled.
Azerbaijan and Turkey frequently threaten Armenia with military action. Azerbaijan also expelled all of its Armenian citizens and both Azerbaijan and Turkey continue their blockade. Azerbaijan is also a ruthless dictatorship. Nations do trade with Azerbaijan apart from Israel but Peres flat out denied the Armenian genocide.
Im referring to more than just that however you seem to be justifying the affair nonetheless.
Im sure the sectarianism had nothing to do with the fact the Jews were in the process of occupying Palestine now? Aye, some EUROPEAN ideologies crept in however, they weren't significant till WW2.
I ask why does everyone hate the Jews? They must be doing something evil. Im guessing you're a Christian but you openly support a nation which rejects Christ? Truth is, Israel doesn't care about Judeophobia( notice Im not using Anti-Semitism ). John Hagee is a great example of that. Yes, there are misguided Christian Zionists alright but there are many Christians who reject Israel too. Jews were spies for the Moorish armies invading Spain. Queen Isabella the Catholic tried to facilitate them after the reconquista but they posed a huge security threat if Muslim armies wished to re-invade Spain. So she expelled them and guess what? Spanish civilisation took off like a rocket. Israel relies on hateful men like Ian Paisley and Hagee for support yet likes to call those who criticise it 'anti-Semitic'. BTW Cromwell also let the Jews back into Britain. I think we all can agree he was a lovely man. Jews control hollywood and took a strong role in rotting traditional Western values into the decadent society we have today.
Please look up the French-Israeli relationship up to 1962. France helped Israel build up its military and nuclear arsenal in exchange for money and knowledge about the Algerian resistance from Algerian Jews.
Sorry, I must have made a mistake. I think Hizballah sharing a platform with some Irish politicians was also involved.
Lebanese are Arabised Phoenicians. I deliberately said Saudis because they're pure Semites and Arabs. Ashkenazi Jews are a bunch of German/Eastern European Jewish converts masquerading as a separate race.
Well I support a Kurdistan in Iraq, Turkey and Syria too. They never exceeded 5% until the late 1800s. They weren't Ashkenazi Jews either. They also took over Thessalonika and helped dilute the Greek resistance to the Ottomans.
Hmmmm Yiddish is related to German. Jews learned Hebrew and posed as Semites. Hardly a major problem to understand.
I will provide links to support my argument in a few minutes.
I realise your views are deeply entrenched however try not to brush off all criticism as Judeophobic.
Hi Hala, Re. what Sadat said to Jarring Gunnar concerned a peace initiative to the best of my knowledge. Sadat’s attack came as a total surprise because he played a game of bluff. Egypt intended pressing onward. The big Sinai tank attack on October 14th failed and Israel quickly counter-attacked.
Kosovo is recognised by much of the international community. Partition carved up empires and created nations. Some were largely peaceful but many others were not because so often they develop from a reality where there is already a lot of violence. Partition is just one part of a process of healing sectarian conflict over time. An opposite is what some refer to as the “Rwandan solution” which is not a particularly desirable consequence to say the least. Its often a necessary evil, the lesser of two evils.
Hala wrote: “why does everyone hate the Jews? They must be doing something evil.” - Not everyone hates Jews – even in the Arab world although I’m sure few would acknowledge it but the occasional voice speaks out. Consider the reverse of the stance that Jews must be doing something wrong for so many to hate them: many people that hate possess a hatred thats unjustified but exists due to history. Consider the probabilities of the two: the vast majority (if not all) of one group are somehow divinely evil versus unjustified hatred directed at one group being the result of a quite common human failing.
Anti-Semitism was not a major phenomenon until early Christian times even though there was a very big Jewish populace in the ancient world – 10% of the Roman Empire. Islam, growing in the same region, was influenced by Christianity. Anti-Semitism can be a mental reaction to adverse conditions. Different peoples are targeted but who better for the faithful to blame than the ones that supposedly killed Christ, tried to kill Mohammad etc.? The collective fears of a society are directed at such people – thus the contradictory positions of the US thinking Jews are communists while the USSR was simultaneously thinking they were greedy capitalists. Today there’s stereotypes of greedy establishment capitalists and the contradictory one of dangerous revolutionaries. Can you really not see the irony of enemies in the Middle East saying each other is controlled by Jews?
The Spanish Inquisition was the sort of orgy of sadistic barbarity, for which justification are often invented. Myths and stories can be made up by anyone at anytime to ease guilty consciences. Spain was in an almost constant state of war before the Moors were expelled. Stability and the Renaissance in neighbouring nations assisted Spain’s development. If you trace hatreds they are often found to be invention. The Blood libel against Jews is just a reworking of a story pagan Greeks and Romans made up http://www.strangehistory.net/2013/03/12/mass-misunderstandings-and-worse/ about Christians.
The corruption of Western values wasn’t helped by Hollywood but if you want to understand what has caused a rotting in Western culture then read Nietzsche’s On the Genealogy of Morality.
“Lebanese are Arabised Phoenicians. I deliberately said Saudis because they're pure Semites and Arabs. Ashkenazi Jews are a bunch of German/Eastern European Jewish converts masquerading as a separate race.” – honestly, very very few Jewish people are anything remotely akin to the Germanic or Slavic races in terms of appearance. You may as well say they bear a resemblance to the Inuit! Yiddish does have a relationship to Germanic with a mix of Hebrew but some Jewish communities were clustered in central Europe for a millennia so would adapt. Why would Jews have posed as Semites, when their difference led to them getting the crap beaten out of them by big German blonde folks?
If my views are entrenched it's because I went from the common Irish pro-Palestinian lefty republican views after realising they’re dishonest. I suspect we wont ever agree but please feel free to have the last say on the issues discussed. Btw I think posting more than 3 links is tagged spam if you posted up a lot.
Yeah my links disappeared. I looked hard to for mainstream articles too instead of sites like rense or stormfront but here my response is....
Sadat betrayed Hafez Al-Assad and let the Syrians bare the brunt of Israeli aggression. The offensive for him was to try gain some pride again. Syria was genuinely fighting for its territory back. You just said Sadat proposed a peace initiative so your earlier statement about his intentions being unclear has just been contradicted.
Kosovo has been recognised by roughly half the international community. Most of the EU bar certain countries like Spain recognise it. Empires have conceded land before but that's not partition. The entire Kosovo affair was a good distraction to the American public over the Lewinsky affair. Who happens to be a Jew.
You said sectarian healing, yet the majority of Zionists were in fact Commies. So sectarianism can't be implied. Not all diverse states end up killing one another anyway.
Well I beg to differ there. Jews are despised by Evangelic Christians despite their rampant Zionism. John Hagee said himself "Thank God for the Holocaust". The Bible mentions several reasons to be wary of Jews, including the Synagogue of Satan. Aisha probably killed Muhammad and the Romans killed Jesus so I don't agree there. The US is mainly Jew controlled however. 60% of Democratic funding comes from Jews and 25% of Republican funding does. Republicans also have those fanatical loonies, Evangelics. All media outlets, most anyway, are controlled by Jews. Hollywood is also controlled by Jews. Many Commies were Jews too. Over 10% of Republican forces during the Spanish Civil war were Jews. Jews make up only a tiny fraction of 1% of Spain's population! These Republicans murdered Priests, burned monasteries, churches and cathedrals and raped nuns. Stavinsky in France almost caused a coup d'etat.
The Romans, Babylonians all hated the Jews too. Christianity is not to blame for Jew hatred. Yes Jews were Commies and capitalists. They tried to pit the west against the east like the former Malaysian PM said. Any country with a central bank is Jew controlled. The Al Saud family is a disgusting disgrace. They are traitors to Islam and only care about lining their pockets from foreign oil money. Oil companies are also under Jewish control. KSA has a rather large and modern army but they don't defend the Palestinians or Lebanese. Gulf States+Egypt+Jordan+Lebanese army+Turkey have all been bought off by the US.
Spain was terrified their civilisation would be re-invaded. The Spanish inquisition wasn't pretty but those who emphasise it are merely on a crusade against Catholicism. Spain couldn't have people threatening the unity of their state. Isabella should receive sainthood for spreading Catholicism but the Jewish lobby to the Vatican opposes such a move. Isabella never agreed with the horrific treatment of Amerindians nor did she come to the decision to expel non-Catholics easily. You must remember she expelled, Jews AND Muslims from Spain. The reformation had not yet begun then. However, no one hears about the Muslims being expelled.
Wasn't helped? Frak, Hollywood didn't just help it, they led it. Im all for women's Lib but it went too far. Women are just seen as trashy now. The woodstock organisers were all Jewish BTW.
That is why Ashkenazi Jews have blonde hair and blue eyes? About 60% of Ashkenazim have Semitic traits through their father. Maternally it's almost none. So less than half of Ashkenazim haven't even got a drop of Semitic blood.
Many Pro-Palestinians are proper idiots that lack a rational argument apart from "Free free Palestine, occupation is a crime" however it doesn't taint the cause. To be honest, Im more anti-Israel from a Lebanese perspective. The Lebanese are relatively sidelined . I don't know why but Im guessing it's because the majority of Muslims in the west are Sunni.
I found an interesting quotation too.
"MayThe violence done to Lebanon will overwhelm you,
as will the destruction of the beasts that terrified them,
for the blood of man and violence to the earth,"
Habakkuk 2:17
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